Indian Council of World Affairs

 

Unidentified Speaker: Good afternoon, Excellencies, ladies and gentlemen. It's my pleasure to welcome you all to the Indian Council of World Affairs for today's talk on Uruguayan Perspective on Latin America and the world. Before we proceed, may I request to keep your phones on silent mode. Thank you. The lecture will be delivered by Professor Ignacio Bartesaghi, who is a Professor at the Catholic University of Uruguay. And Professor Bartesaghi, we are extremely honored to have you with us here today.

 

We'll begin today's program with welcome remarks delivered by Ms. Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General and Additional Secretary, Indian Council of World Affairs. And this will be followed by lecture by Professor Ignacio Bartesaghi. And after the lecture, we'll move into a brief Q&A session, which will be moderated by the chair. May I now request Ms. Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General, ICWA, to kindly deliver her welcome remarks. Thank you.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: Good afternoon, distinguished guests, excellencies, colleagues and friends. It is my privilege to welcome you all to ICWA. I'm honored to introduce our distinguished guest, Professor Ignacio Bartesaghi. Professor Bartesaghi is from the Catholic University of Uruguay. He holds a post-doctorate in economic integration from the University of Valencia, Spain. His expertise spans international business, integration processes, and international trade and he is a member of the National Agency of Research and Innovation in Uruguay.

 

Across his career, he has served as Head of the Department of Integration and International Trade at the Chamber of Industries of Uruguay and as coordinator of the Latin America Asia Pacific Observatory. In 2017, he became Dean of the Faculty of Business Sciences, and in 2021, he was appointed Director of the International Office of the Business School. He is also an International Lecturer, Consultant, and Visiting Professor in Spain, India, China, Paraguay, and Argentina.

 

Friends, Latin America today stands at a moment of reflection and transition. The region holds immense promise, yet longstanding challenges continue to restrict its full potential. Growth remains uneven, cooperation fluctuates and institutions are increasingly strained amidst shifting global landscapes. Democratic debate often becomes polarized along ideological lines rather than focusing on solutions, affecting discussions on reform, integration, migration, organized crime and external partnerships.

 

As a result, consensus weakens and policy continuity suffers, creating uncertainty and hindering development. Meanwhile, major powers, including the U.S. and China, are deepening their strategic presence in the region. Without a shared regional vision, Latin America risks becoming a passive arena for rivalry rather than shaping its own destiny. To emerge as a global pole of consequence, the region requires resilient institutions, deeper cooperation, and informed public opinion.

 

When citizens focus on rational choices, leaders gain confidence to act on informed public opinion and resist external pressures. These themes are analyzed in our recent publication, Latin America, Escaping the Trap of Ideology, to which Professor Bartesaghi contributed a very valuable article on the role of CELAC, and I thank him for that. It also supports the principle of regionalism in comparison to extra-regional ties. I encourage all to read it. It is available on our website.

 

In parallel, the fragmentation of the global system coincides with the rise of the Global South. India and Latin America seek to diversify partnerships, strengthen economic autonomy and advance multilateral reform, climate justice, and South-South cooperation. Uruguay holds a special place in this context, reflecting shared values and mutual confidence. Uruguay was among the earliest Latin American destinations for Indian IT investment, with Montevideo serving as a trusted hub.

 

India also views Uruguay as a stable political, economic and social component of MERCOSUR, supported by the PTA, the preferential trade agreement and its ongoing expansion dialogue. International engagement has also grown as yoga, Ayurveda and Indian traditions find increasing resonance in Uruguay. The recent Foreign Office consultations have opened opportunities for cooperation between India and Uruguay in a range of areas digital innovation, agriculture, renewable energy, Ayurveda, pharmaceuticals and education.

 

Uruguay's strengths in public policy, social innovation and e-governance complement India's expertise in digital public infrastructure and capacity building, offering scope for joint initiatives that benefit the wider Global South. As India deepens its engagement with Latin America, Uruguay remains a valued and trusted partner. Though geographically distant, our nations are connected by shared values, democratic principles and common aspirations for a world that is equitable, inclusive and respectful of the voice of the Global South.

 

Together, we can contribute more to a balanced international order. Once again, I reaffirm our shared commitment to fostering constructive dialogue, strengthening cooperation, advancing peace, stability, prosperity and mutual understanding between India, Uruguay and the broader Latin American region as we go ahead. With this, I now invite Professor Bartesaghi to make his remarks and give his lecture. Thank you.

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: Good afternoon to everybody. Thanks, Nutan, for the invitation. For me, it's a pleasure to be in the Indian Council of World Affairs. I already work with this council already and with the publication. I'm very happy for that. So thank you for having me today. For me, it's a good opportunity to discuss about Uruguay and Latin America. And also, I want to thank Ambassador Alberto Guani, that he's in charge of this organization of my visit. So thank you, Alberto. And also the Ambassadors of Peru and Colombia that are here with me today. So thank you for being with us.

 

And, okay, I will tell you some words about the Uruguayan Perspective in Latin America and the world. Of course, in a moment very complicated for all and in particular for small countries, I think that it's different to be India than to be Uruguay. You have to imagine that we are a very small country, so we have the opportunity to review our international strategy in this new international context.

 

So I will separate my short presentation because the idea is to share some, discuss with you, and maybe to answer some questions. I want to tell you something about Uruguay and the new global context. Of course, how is our view about what is going on in the world. Also, Latin America and MERCOSUR, because we are in Latin America, and Latin America is having very important transformations, so I think it's important to talk about that.

 

And then, finally, the potential of the relationship between Uruguay and India, because you are a big country, we are a small country, but anyway, as Newton said, we have a lot of opportunities and I think especially in this moment. So, first I want to tell you that my country has a long history in defending principles of freedom, human rights and democracy and has always supported the peaceful resolution of conflicts and territorial integrity, concepts that Uruguay supports with a clear defense of multilateral institutions, historical defense in multilateral institutions.

 

This defense is reflected in its international positions in the UN, in the support of sustainable development goals, in its vision on climate change and in its role regarding food security, among other issues of the global agenda. I want to resolve regarding food security, because I think that with India here we have a lot of potential to work together. As you know, Uruguay has also played a key role in GATT, what we know is today World Trade Organization, with launching the Uruguayan round of the GATT in 1986, with the final incorporation of agriculture sector in the organization's rules, which is a sector of total importance of Uruguay.

 

When we talk about Uruguay, we talk about agriculture and the potential of all products related with food. Of course, here we can play an important role in India demands. In this new current context, Uruguay is observing with great concern what is going on in the global conflicts. Of course, such as the war in Ukraine, the position of Uruguay is against the Russian invasion, also we are worried about Middle East conflicts where we had historically defended the two-state solution and we tried to condemn all types of violence in this region.

 

In addition to the emerging conflicts and understand that the path of cooperation and peaceful is the only way to resolve the conflicts nowadays, is the only possible one for us. Then President Orsi at the United Nations Assembly last September said that Uruguay offered itself as a mediator, countries in the international conflicts, to open the dialogue in the networks. Why? Because peace for Uruguay is really important. Peace for all small countries is always really important, but in particular for Uruguay.

 

Likewise, we are very worried about the trade war and the battle of Trump against the multilateral trade rules. Of course, we have to agree we are worried about Trump, we are worried about the view of Trump in trade and the view of Trump in international organizations. Uruguay was always a defender of free trade and the rules of the World Trade Organization.

 

Today, it's really close following the process of reform of these international organizations like World Trade Organisation, but also the UN. We are watching with attention what was going on in G20 meeting, where we have like a kind of agreement that we have to reform the international organizations. So for Uruguay, this is an important process and of course, we think that the voice of India here will be important for the future of these organizations, of course.

 

But we will try to defend what we reach, what we have. We want a reform, but respecting the role of that organization played after the Second World War. So it's important to see that. Of course, in this context of trade war, geopolitical war between the United States and China, and the necessary reform of international organizations created in the post-war, in my opinion, India has a role to play, where a greater involvement with Latin American countries is expected.

 

So when I talk with academicians of the region, we are all like waiting for India, waiting for a response of India, waiting for a reaction of India. We talk about U.S. all the time. We talk about Europe all the time. We talk about China all the time. Historically, we have a good relation with Japan and South Korea related with cooperation and investment at that moment. Also, not so much in trade. I will trade now is focused really in China, but when we talk about the agenda, the international agenda, the political issues, India is not there at the moment.

 

So I think that it's the time to have India talking with Latin America in what we need is the new international context. Let me tell you something about Latin America and MERCOSUR. Okay, Latin America, it's a region with several different countries, but I think that we face enormous challenges in Latin America, many of them growing without solution. Latin America faces a growth in drug trafficking, for example and in organized crime, shows really problems, institutional problems and significant political crisis in some states.

 

The region still faces physical and digital infrastructure deficits and we need to implement structural reforms. As I said, economic integration in the region is slow, since trade is principal outside the zone, and has not yet reached the potential in the region due to logistical restrictions and the non-tariff barriers. We are not a region totally integrated. We need to work there a lot.

 

The countries of the different sub-regions have similar exportable offers, so we compete with our neighbour, which affects in the potential of inter-regional trade, it's very hard. We need to work in regional value chains and we're there. I think that India also has a very important space, not only in investments, but also maybe in associations with companies of Latin America.

 

We have some examples. The strategic difference between some governments in the region, as we are seeing between Brazil and Argentina, is an example that, of course, this is growing, and this is affecting the functioning of some forums, like CELAC and for example, some integration regional processes. So at the moment, what we can see is that in the region, leaders are thinking different. We are not together. So we have problems in the Andean countries, we have problems in South countries like Argentina and Brazil. Mexico is not taking a look to Latin America, it's taking a look to the U.S. and trying to solve the problem with Trump in trade, and not only.

 

So this is really a problem for our country. We don't have a space where we're all together. We don't have consensus on important things. For example, other spaces that were really important in the past, like UNASUR is paralyzed and Lula, the President of Brazil, is trying to relaunch this forum, but it's not possible because of the lack of consensus. So of course, we have a problem here.

 

In any case, for me, Latin America is a region of peace. This is important in this moment, in this international context. Peace is a message we can send to the world. We really have energy resources a lot. When we have a problem of resources and energy around the world, we are playing, but we need to play a strategic agenda there. We have also a lot of abundance of minerals and strategic resources that we need. I saw news that India and Canada signed an agreement in 2020 related with strategic resources.

 

We have that also, we Latin Americans, so I think that we need to discuss about this and about other natural resources as well. It is also an important market in terms of consumption. India still has enormous spaces for commercial opening and investments. We are, Latin America is open, you have competition of U.S., of Europe, of China, of course, but the potential of the trade between India and Latin America is huge, very huge. And the consumption is increasing in our region because we have a lot of population and the economy is changing fast. So this is all to do.

 

Some countries of the region have development infrastructures and development and dynamic capitals, in the case of Uruguay. So we have, as I said, some structural problems, but from the other side you can see countries that are doing really well and it's like a developed country in some sense. This is a region with close ties with the United States, with the European Union and with China, as you know. We are competitors, of course, all these blocs and countries are competitors of India in many goods and services and also in investments.

 

India is playing already at the competition in Latin America, for example, with China. But I think that that is more like a result of trade, but it's not in the context or in the framework of our strategy. So from the government we need to have some more signals about the strategy with Latin America and maybe with some sub-regions. In this context, there are various strategies among the countries of the region with a growing intervention by the United States and China, which is generating strategic alliances such as the one followed by Argentina with the United States, and maybe Brazil with China.

 

Only you to know, in the last days, weeks, Argentina announced with the U.S. an agreement not only to solve the tariffs that U.S. is applying in the context of the trade war, but also U.S. is going to give a treaty to Argentina better than the rest of the countries. So what we have here is a Trump that is saying, I will go with Argentina. Also this agreement was also with El Salvador, with Guatemala and with Ecuador.

 

So the signal is clear. It's Trump saying, I will go with the countries that are my friends, that we have a similar vision in political. That is a new face of Latin America and it would be complicated. In this scenario, India would also occupy a position as a power that can deepen the relationship with many countries in the region without being another alternative of commercial and strategic expansion for Latin America.

 

So I think that the most important problem we have in international relations is to decide between China and the U.S. But this is also important for Latin America. We are going to have problems. Peru will have problems with the port. Uruguay will have problems with going with China and not with the U.S. And in this context, to play with India is a good decision, because we have a great potential of trade, we have a great potential in services, we have a great potential in other issues of agenda, but we are not playing.

 

And what we imagine is that India is not going to be a problem for the U.S. So we can deepen our relation without having problems. We cannot deepen the relation with China at the moment, because when you talk with people in the U.S. and USTR, for example, in the U.S., they are really clear. They are not going to go with you if you go with China. That is the message.

 

So I think that a lot of Latin American countries need to imagine other ways to integrate in the world. So it's important in this geopolitical world. Some countries will have problems in defining the next steps in terms of international policy, and there India is going to play. MERCOSUR is a key block for Uruguay. Something about MERCOSUR. Of course, in our international strategy, although greater openness is demanded, something that all governments in Uruguay have arised in some point.

 

We are really a part of MERCOSUR. We think that this is a very important block for Uruguay, but we are also trying to push another MERCOSUR, a more modern MERCOSUR, a more open MERCOSUR. And when we talk about MERCOSUR, we talk about the lack of agreements that has MERCOSUR. All the agreements that we have already with India, that is a very short agreement with only 350 products, and we are using only one. The preference of Uruguay in the whole agreement with MERCOSUR India is only one product, only one. That it's something in wood.

 

So it's not, it's incredible, because of course, we export very short to India, but we can export much more if we have an agreement, at least an agreement with 3,000 products, not only, like, similar than Chile agreement, at least, no? But anyway, we ask a different MERCOSUR. I want to tell you something about MERCOSUR, because MERCOSUR is changing very fast, and you're going to hear about a new MERCOSUR next year.

 

Let me tell you why. In the case of Uruguay, we proposed a different MERCOSUR, and we try to be, we try to have a more flexible MERCOSUR. For example, we try to negotiate a free trade agreement with China, I don't know if you remember this, and we also ask to go into Trans-Pacific Agreement, CPTPP, where my country was accepted last week to start negotiations.

 

So this is the big news for MERCOSUR. We have two news, at least, the agreement of Argentina with the U.S., but the agreement of Argentina with the U.S. is not an agreement at the moment. It's only some words about what they are going to do. It's not clear. When you talk with USTR, they are telling us that they will have an agreement with Argentina and they will give preference to Argentina better than the preference that Paraguay, Uruguay and Brazil has, that we don't have preference.

 

We have a trade war now, we have a 10% plus in the case of Paraguay, Uruguay and Argentina, and 40% plus in the case of Brazil. Of course, now, the decision of the U.S. was to cut these tariffs because inflation. So the U.S. is cutting these tariffs because necessary and in particular in agricultural products. So Uruguay tried with China, tried with CPTPP. We also tried an approach with Turkey to sign an agreement in that moment, but nothing happens.

 

But this strategy was very focused in the possible of signing an agricultural agreement with China. To be honest, that was our main objective in the last government. Now, with the new government, it changed a bit. Why? Because the government of Orsi is near Lula's interests and MERCOSUR interests. And in terms of Lula's view, he prefers to negotiate all together.

 

But the reality is a bit different, no? Okay, we now have Lula, we have a new mind of Lula tries to be all together, but Trump is there, and Trump is changing everything. So, Milei is there, but Milei thinks differently than Lula, and things are happening. So, the flexibility of MERCOSUR is there. That is the important change if we compare with time ago. Of course, we also are waiting for the European Union. The most important thing for MERCOSUR that will happen maybe this year, and is going to be the most important thing in the history of MERCOSUR, will be if we sign an agreement with the European Union.

 

We know that India is running also this opportunity, but we already closed the agreement in December of 2024, and we are trying to sign this agreement in December of this year. Lula confirmed yesterday to the media in the G20 that this is going to happen next 20th of December. So, if this is going to happen next 20th of December, of course, it's like an important new step for MERCOSUR and also an important new step to say, okay, pay attention to this bloc because now you have more competition. You have preferential competition for Europe.

 

Okay. Maybe India, you can react about this. Of course, Trump is not going to react because Trump is only thinking in giving some preference to Argentina, not to Lula because of political issue. But maybe China is going to react with MERCOSUR. Maybe Indonesia is thinking in Mercosur. Vietnam is thinking in MERCOSUR. Maybe India must react. So, next week we will have news about the possibility, but already Lula is confirming that this is going to happen.

 

If this happens, it will open a new stage of MERCOSUR becoming a more attractive economic bloc. In parallel, Milei is moving forward with the trade agreement with the U.S. without consent of Mercosur and is showing signs of not giving importance to the agreement with the European Union, which also has to do with not recognizing Lula like a leadership in the region. Milei doesn't want to recognize Lula like a leadership, like a leader in the leadership of the region.

 

Anyway, of course, MLE will sign the agreement with the European Union if that is going to happen. So, Milei is not going to block this agreement because Argentina needs needs to open also the economy to continue the process of development. It should be considered that the U.S. adds new political partners in Latin America, such as the new right-wing governments in Bolivia and the pro-electoral results in Chile, which joined the alliance in addition to Argentina, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Ecuador.

 

So the electoral results in the region are like saying, Trump, hello, we are here. So Trump is going to be happy because of these results. In this context, Uruguay has another political side, Uruguay must be very pragmatic and avoid alliances based on ideologies, since it's not the path it is willing to follow. So what we imagine is that we need to be very pragmatical in our international relations.

 

We're not going to decide between China and between U.S. We're not going to decide our trade to be ideological. What we imagine and we wish is that the agreement with the European Union is signed and comes into force. We need to try to lower the additional tariffs of 10% imposed by Trump. And we hope the MERCOSUR external agenda advance in the next years. Putin enforced the agreement with Singapore, closing with United Arab Emirates, and maybe opening new negotiations with Asian economies.

 

I think that this is going to happen maybe with Vietnam and Indonesia. So we're going to start new negotiations. Although the Uruguayan government of President Orsi has focused more on MERCOSUR and has gotten closer to Lula in its strategy of international dissension, at various levels of the government, the flexibility of MERCOSUR is a strategy very present. So in the political side, Orsi is near Lula, but with MERCOSUR and flexibility, we are very pragmatical. We want a Mercosur very open.

 

This option is stronger because the commercial advance between Argentina and the United States, that of course is a part of MERCOSUR norms and now we are trying to negotiate with CPTPP. So we are also opening MERCOSUR in one sense. Of course, this is a new reality of flexibilization in MERCOSUR and of course, this opens new opportunities for our partners. Okay, let me close with the potential of the relation between Uruguay and India, so then we can have a discussion. In international context, indicated above, in the reality that Latin America faces very hard, Uruguay is a small but stable market, especially for attracting investments. The installation of data consultants and services in 2002 is a good example of the importance given to Uruguay as a country of trust, because it's India trusting Uruguay with a very important investment.

 

I want to highlight that the process of updating the investment agreement that is underway between Uruguay and India, of course, will be a new push to attract more investments from India and to serve the region from Uruguay. Of course, like a hub. We are a very small economy, but we are very well located and we are very near Argentina, Brazil. So we can be a hub, of course.

 

Also, next year will be especially important for Uruguay and India relations, with several high political visits to India and the opening of the India embassy in Montevideo, something that Uruguay had been waiting for a long time, really for a long time. This is, Alberto knows this very, very good. We always, when we talk with India, okay, when the embassy? Because embassy helps a lot to push our relations. So this is going to happen, so it's really important. The country's differentials have to do with logistical connections, recent advances in trains, natural port, opportunities with the binational corridors proposed by Brazil, very good levels of digital connectivity, legal stability, environmental care, among other positive aspects about Uruguay.

 

What about trade? The trade between India and Uruguay is exceptionally low, with exports of 153 million in 2024 focused on very few products. For example, only wood, only one product explains 80% of Uruguayan exports to India, only one product. So then we have some food preparations, some wool, but we need to expand this we need to work in this. In imports, India is mostly present, India exports more to Uruguay than Uruguay to India, 268 million and the presence is in fuels, vehicles, chemicals, machines, mechanical devices, clothing, plastics, medicines, among others.

 

So if you look, this trade, you are competing with China at the moment. In a low range, because we buy 10 times more from China than from India at the moment. But this is going to change, if you look at the chart, it's changing very fast. So anyway, nowadays the trade with India and Uruguay is more diversified from your side than from our side, only one product, 80%, that is incredible for me. Uruguay is today the MERCOSUR country with the greatest interest in deepening its external opening with India, for sure.

 

Why? If you talk with Paraguay, Paraguay is changing in the view with India as well, but if you talk with Argentina and with Brazil, at the end, they are a closed economy as well. At the moment, they are a closed economy. I want to tell you that the tariff of MERCOSUR in average is the double of the tariff around the world, before Trump context. So, we are not an opening, we are a closed economy. Of course, in some sense, India is also a closed economy.

 

But when you talk about free trade agreements with Argentina and with Brazil, okay, we are going to do that, but maybe the message is not so clear. When you talk about free market with Uruguay is the country that can push. Diplomatically, we can push from MERCOSUR, when we have the presidency of MERCOSUR, from the CELAC, we can push to open our economy, MERCOSUR economy.

 

And of course, in this new situation with Trump and in the difference that we can see between Milei and Lula, Uruguay is the country that can help in opening the relation with India, in my view. It's like a positive agenda at the moment. It's not a problem, it's a small country, so it's not a problem. In this sense, I understand that it is necessary to deepen the agreement with MERCOSUR, at least at the level of Chile or maybe to launch a new free trade agreement like we expect is going to happen with Peru or maybe what is going to happen finally with the European Union, with India and the European Union.

 

So from our side, we are watching this with a lot of expectations, because if India closes a free trade agreement with Peru and it's going to be an interesting free trade agreement, that is a very important signal, because it's like, okay, we are changing. India is changing. Of course, if India closes an agreement with the European Union, it's changing a lot. No? That is more complicated than Peru, I think. But Peru, we imagine that it's going to happen, and we're waiting for that, because the signal will be very strong for us.

 

So, okay, now India is available to talk about a free trade agreement and maybe with MERCOSUR, maybe with Uruguay. So, even in this scenario proposed by MERCOSUR, regarding flexibility due to the steps taken by Argentina and Uruguay in CPTPP, I think that it opens a possibility even of a discussion of a bilateral approach between Uruguay and India, because we have the framework of the agreement of Mercosur-India, so we can debate first with Uruguay, and then we can talk with the region, because it's a difficult moment to talk with Brazil.

 

The government of Brazil is going to change in one year, no? Then, Milei is only focusing on the US. Milei is a bit strange for me because Milei is a President that when you talk with the people of Milei, okay, we're going to be an open economy, we want to close free trade agreements with, but only is U.S. They're not talking about closing free trade agreement with Asia, with India, with Indonesia, with Vietnam, with Malaysia. No, they're talking only about U.S.

 

I think that it's not that they are going to open the economy. The decision is a political decision. My partner, my strategy partner is the U.S., of course because of financial support, of course because of another issues of the international agenda, but it's more political focus. So the free trade conversations with Argentina and Brazil I think are complicated at the moment. In addition for India, I think we need a greater approach of India to MERCOSUR, ALADI and CELAC. CELAC will be really important because Uruguay will have the presidency of MERCOSUR in the second semester and the presidency of CELAC since April.

 

So and that will be in the first moment of the presidency of Indian BRICS. So what we imagine is that we must push like a new launch of conversation of India in CELAC, but more like a group because we have a connection with CELAC-India, but not in the level of a group. We have a level of China, a group of CELAC-China and CELAC-European Union. No CELAC-India. My question is, why not? Maybe this can be the opportunity for Uruguay in the next year to launch a group CELAC-India and in that context try to have it's not the word, try to force or try to imagine a strategy together to deepen the relation between India and Latin America.

 

In short, there are many points of complementary in the relationship between Uruguay and India where we can be the gateway to the region and where India can play a greater role in the regional political agenda. These are, we are talking about two democratic countries with a commitment in innovation and development, with common visions in various aspects of the global agenda that are in full transformation. Of course my country is small, we know that, you know that, but its attributes make it an interesting partner in the new strategy proposed by India.

 

Uruguay is aware about our size, but in this new international context we also know that we have great opportunities to expand our relationship with big economies such as India in several topics like energy, technology, services, agricultural cooperation, attending security limitation, but we also have common interests in the several aspects of the international agenda.

 

Also when we talk about CELAC, we also expect more links of India with the Development Bank of Latin America and the Caribbean, that is also an important space for us, important space for investments and we want India to be more active in this bank and also in the Inter-American Development Bank. We have already China in this organization, a time ago, why not India is there, we think it's a great opportunity also.

 

To close and to have a conversation with you, Latin America can have more options with India in the international strategies, not only focusing the US, European Union and China, we need to diversify our strategy, but for this we need political will, we need to have India like a real partner, so it's important to know what is going to be the strategy of India in the next year with Latin America and in particular with MERCOSUR. Thank you for your attention.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: Thank you, Professor Ignacio Bartesaghi, for that wonderful talk. And you covered a range of views, not only how Uruguay relates to the current changing international context, on US-China rivalry, on your relations with other Latin American countries, on your approach and of course last but not the least, our relations with each other, which as you said, have significant potential to come closer, including not only bilaterally but also through cooperation with regional Latin American organizations. I don't want to stand in the way of your interaction with our research faculty and our guests, but I do wish to pose the first question with your permission.

 

I was last week, when we were preparing for your talk, I was going through Wikipedia pages related to Uruguay and I came to know that since 1835, the President of Uruguay's term has always begun and ended on first March, according to Wikipedia. I hope it is correct and if it is correct, I'm amazed at the remarkable continuity and stability in the polity of Uruguay, which is very, very valuable. So I would like you to comment on it, this political stability that you have, despite the fact that Latin America and other countries are facing so many challenges. So that is one.

 

And the second point that I would like to mention is, I saw a very nice photograph of President Yamandu Orsi on the net. That is when he was at his inaugural as the President. So he's looking up somewhere, and he's showing his thumbs up, because it's his inaugural. Obviously, he's very happy and very motivated. And he's giving the sign thumbs up. Now, in the West, thumbs up means good luck. So good luck to me and good luck to everyone. In India, it means showing the thumbs up, right? In India, showing the thumbs up means quite the opposite. When I was a child, I would show thumbs up to my friend. I would get scolded by my mother, because it was an insult to the other person. And they would point out.

 

So what I'm saying is, we understand these cultural differences. And to come closer to each other, we have to understand these divergences that we have in our behaviour, in our thought processes. And I hope -  if we understand these differences, Uruguayans understand it too. And that is what eventually will bring the two peoples together. So if you would like to comment on it, and then I would open the floor for questions.

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: Thank you, Nutan, for the questions and for your remarks. Yeah, we have the stability in Uruguay. We have only a period without stability that was 15 years, Alberto, so, so. But if you see the whole picture, we are the most stable country in Latin America. For sure, yeah. And one of the oldest democracies in the world. And we have the parties, the oldest parties, political parties in the world. And that is part of the key of the success. Maybe the key of the success also is history, because we are in the middle of two very big countries, very dynamic countries, and countries with crisis everywhere.

 

So we look at that, and we say, okay, we want another thing. Maybe it's like history. But of course, stability of Uruguay is important. Democracy is really important. Freedom is very important. The respect of law is very important, the respect of the institutions is very important. We are very calm people. We want everybody to have a space to have a liberal opinion. So this is one of our more important things to show. If you have an investment in Uruguay, of course nobody thinks that you're not going to respect that investment. It's like part of us, it's part of our history.

 

And of course in the servers of Latin America, when you ask the country with the best position in the confidence of the institutions, Uruguay is in the position number one. Less corruption country in Latin America as well. So that is like our important thing to show, because what we don't have is a big market. Uruguay is very small. We have only 3.4 people living in Uruguay, 3.4 million people. And running down, not running up.

 

So the problem is, okay, we don't have a big market. We need to try to show our differences that are stability, political stability. When the presidents finish the mandate, they always finish. They never go to jail or something like that. No problem. And they can walk in the street without a problem. Former presidents, hello. It's something common in Uruguay. It's like very different.

 

And I think that this is recognized by all Latin American countries. And when I travel around the world, also they say, okay, Uruguay, small country, no news, stable, no problem. Of course we have some problems also. Like America, we need to work in several things of the agenda, but we are in a better situation. And about what you said about culture, yeah, I think it's a very good example to know each other and how we can know each other if we travel. If you visit Latin America, if I visit India, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. I'm tired.

 

The flight is, the connections are not, the connections are very bad. I'm far away from my country, yeah, but I need. You need to send students. You need to send professors. We need to work in joint research, as we are doing. So write people from Latin America together with people of India. That is the way to understand each other and to know that kind of things.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: With WhatsApp, the meaning of thumbs up is changing in India also. Because you're accepting the Western concept, because WhatsApp is a Western app. Anyway, so let me begin the floor, Ambassador Sajjanhar.

 

Ashok Sajjanhar: Yeah, thank you very much, Nutan, for the invitation. And thank you very much, Professor, for your excellent presentation. My name is Ashok Sajjanhar. I belong to the Indian Diplomatic Service. I have been India's ambassador to a few countries, regrettably, not to any country in South America. Although I've been to South America as a member of delegations, leader of some delegations, etc., etc.

 

But not to Uruguay. But Uruguay is very close to me because you represent the Uruguay Round of Multilateral Trade Negotiations. Euro round of multilateral trade negotiations you represent and of course people like La Carte Muro they have been very good friends Roseli, very good friends. So I have good friends in Uruguay. And I'm going to be traveling for a lecture tour to your country and some of the other countries. So I thought this would be a very good opportunity to get a feel of South America.

 

So I have a couple of questions, meaning I'll just limit it to two or three because you raised a number of issues. Number one, Professor, you mentioned many times, not once, many times, that Uruguay is a small country. Small countries also have advantages. Like you did mention right at the beginning, you have given an offer as a mediator. It's only small countries that can really be the venues for mediation on big challenges, issues, Russia-Ukraine conflict. Big countries cannot be mediators.

 

So I want to hear from you as to what is the experience you have had so far in terms of, because I thought that with all the credentials you have, democracy, stability, security, etc., etc., you have been ideal venue for mediating this. Second question, now you mentioned there are problems, of course, in South America and several of them, but still, if you compare it, let's say, to the other continents, not the North American continent, but other continents, all of them have been inflicted with conflicts, with wars. You have energy resources. You have huge export of food grains and meat and everything. You have the Amazon River. You have adequate water, everything.

 

My question is, do you think South America has not been able to punch in tandem with its weight? I mean, it has everything and no wars, meaning we say, if peace is there, then we can really grow economic development and go. You have had that all the time, notwithstanding the sort of the conflict between Mr. Lula, Milei and all the other problems that you've been having. So what has been missing? The third aspect is, when you mentioned about India, relations with India, of course, I think the interest of India in Latin America, as in other countries, I know we are opening 18 missions in Africa. Of course, we have only 12 or 13 countries in South America. Uruguay, I think just before you celebrate the 200th anniversary, the second centenary of your independence, that the embassy will be open.

 

So I think India's interest is there and as India's capacity to engage, because today we are the fourth largest economy, very soon to become the third largest economy. So the capacity has grown to engage. So I think there has to be some modicum of movement from the other side. And the last point would be as you say that you are looking at, MERCOSUR is looking at an FTA with EU, CPTPP with China.

 

Now with China, you know that it is a very, on both sides you have big powers, Argentina on one side, Brazil might want to have an FTA with China. But Mr. Milei would have a lot of problems, particularly because of his association with the U.S. So, and India in that sense would be a much more it's not a threatening power in any way to any country, not in the region, not far away. So maybe that would be a better possibility. We have a, I think a PTA, but how to upgrade it to the next?

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: Thank you, Ambassador. A lot of questions and I agree totally. Only one question about MERCOSUR. I will answer the last to the first one. MERCOSUR, China I think is not available for MERCOSUR. My view is that Argentina is not going to accept that, of course, because of the U.S. And Brazil want with China everything but not free trade agreement. Brazil want infrastructure, want bricks, want everything with China, but not free trade agreement. Why? Because the impact of China in Brazil's industry will be very hard.

 

So, and CPTPP is only Uruguay, remember Ambassador, it's not only Uruguay running for CPTPP. Not MERCOSUR because to go in CPTPP is not the authorization for blocks. Only countries can go in CPTPP. So that is a question only for Uruguay. What is going to change MERCOSUR, yes, in my opinion, we signed the agreement of the European Union this year. That will open a new chapter. About mediation, yes, I think that Uruguay is not, how can I say this, my ambassador is here, so I am trying to think of my words.

 

But then he can also talk about what I'm saying. Mediation in a big issue like the war in Ukraine, I think is not possible because we need more political support and effort. But you talk about Rosselli, you talk about La Carte Muro, I can add you also Carlos Perez del Castillo, ambassador. We have leaders in World Trade Organization, GATT and World Trade Organization, we have a history.

 

So what I imagine is that Uruguay have to play a role in the reform of World Trade Organization. I want that, I want that my government, look at my history, I am part of this history so I want to have a word in the reform of World Trade Organization. So maybe, of course Uruguay is a small country but you can be a small country and have very strong issues like the launch of Uruguayan run in 1986.

 

Resources, I think that at the end the problem with Latin American and the resources, the resources are there, what we don't have is a strategy with our resources. We don't have strategy, we don't have regional consensus, so we have only the decision of one country. And the decision of one country will change very fast because it changed the government, it changed the view, so not state policy. My answer is, of course we need to punch with our natural resources and I think that in our relation with India, with our economy, it's the natural path.

 

But we need to be more stable politically. We have a problem in Latin America with the policy, the lack of policy, the lack of strategy. I learned this 20 years ago when I started traveling to some countries in Asia. When I talk with these countries and with this government, I always will turn to my country and, okay, these people are thinking in 20, 25, 30 years from now. And in Uruguay we are talking only for four years, five years. Why? Ignacio, it's simple because it's going to change the government. No, we need to have natural resources with huge investments. You need stable economies, you need stable markets, you need policies.

 

I think that is the problem. And about what you said about India, yeah, for sure, I agree totally that India is changing, that India is now open the opportunity to Latin America. Yes, I think this is happening with several countries, big economies. Indonesia is also doing very well. Indonesia is working in a strategy with Latin America. So things are changing. So I agree totally with you.

 

India is opening the door, but India has a lot of things around the world. So in my opinion, Latin America needs to give the solution Okay, here, please. That's the reason when I tell Uruguay can launch the CELAC-India group. Uruguay can maybe ask India to depend on the agreement that we have to give the solution. Because that you're a very, very big economy with several issues in the international agenda. The importance of the relation with the European Union, the relation with the U.S., of course the relation with China. You're in another place for us. But we have to try to give you the solution to deepen the relation very quickly, in my point of view.

 

Unidentified Participant: Can I add something when you were talking about that? Uruguay is a small country, yes, but Belgium, Luxembourg, Portugal, and Sweden even, Switzerland, they all fit in the surface of Uruguay. So when we call it, it's because according to dimensions in South America, where most of the countries are big, Uruguay is small. But it's not that small if you compare it also with other regions. And when we talk about the capacity of Uruguay as being a mediator.

 

We have to research in history that when we were part of the League of Nations, there was a big conflict in the region between Paraguay and Bolivia Chaco, where Uruguay not only proposed peace suggestions, but at the same time we were the first country in the world to send a peacekeeping operation in the framework of the League of Nations. And that is important because India is also a great supporter of peacekeeping operations.

 

We work on that together. I've been in those issues in the UN, United Nations, and it's something that is very important in today's conflicts, too. And with what has to do with mediation, there is another situation in 1978 and then it turned in 1979 when there was about to be a war between Chile and Argentina. And it was in the channel of Beagle in the southern part of the continent regarding that tip and some islands.

 

And we requested the support of the mediation of the Vatican at that time, and then in 1979, there was a treaty signed in the Taranco Palace in Montenegro, which closed and fortunately avoided the war between those two countries. So regionally, we have a lot of contribution. Central America also, no? Grupo Contador in Central America, and we have also a role.

 

Then in Central America, there was another proposal also by our then former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Enrique Iglesias, where we contributed to avoid the escalation of war, and especially the situation that was going on in Guatemala, and the Contadora Group was created. So, I mean, there are many referrals that we can have a worldwide participating in this kind of mediation and I think that the offer that President Orsi made at the United Nations was basically taking in account those factors. Yeah. Thank you.

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: And to send a message. And we also tried to mediate in the conflict of Venezuela at one moment with the Grupo Montevideo. We also tried to solve that problem, regional problem with Venezuela. So, yes, we have some examples there.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: So, let's see. Let's take another round of questions. Yes, start.

 

Aditi Shukla: Good evening, everyone. Thank you for the session. Myself, Aditi Shukla, and I'm here on behalf of TIES. It is a student organization. And my question is, Latin America is becoming central to global supply chains for lithium and other critical minerals. How does URGE view this shift? And does it see a role for itself in shaping or benefiting from the region's real earth minerals? Thank you.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: You wanted to ask, Ambassador? Comment? Yeah, please. Please go ahead.

 

Unidentified Participant: Thank you very much. Good afternoon. Thank you for the invitations, and congratulations, Professor Ignacio. We also have had the big honor to have you in Colombia several times with the academia, so thank you very much for that. Just a couple of comments. First of all, we feel, and personally, too, we feel in Latin America that, as you mentioned, Uruguay is an example. It's an example. I usually say that, while the societies in the rest of Latin America behave too emotionally regarding politics from left to right, with all the emotionality of a teenager.

 

Brazil is a major society and probably that is the example and that is what we should follow in Latin America. And why I'm mentioning this, I admire very, very much not only the places, Uruguay has been very much supportive with Colombia too, with our issues. But I'm mentioning this regarding how the mass of the population behaves nowadays regarding, you were mentioning the platforms, networks, social networks, so emotional, so immature. And this is an example.

 

In the rest of Latin America, we have been having a lot of extreme feelings regarding left and right. We have not been learning how to do what Uruguay is doing so masterly during all these years. We should learn that from Uruguay. Of course, there is an example about that, and you were mentioning, Professor CELAC, we had this meeting with India last September in the site of the UNGA, the 80th UNGA.

 

And Minister Jaishankar was over there, and we were happy to see that there is an institutional, the decision to institutionalize, to go on definitely in a mechanism between the Latin America, CELAC and India. So there are two groups that will be joining together to set up the basis for this institutional meeting, to make it very institutional. We have been meeting several times, but not on a regular basis. So that's very good. Uruguay will be on April, will be the chair, and receiving the chair from Colombia. That's very good. I'm very glad because of the region.

 

But it's not been easy. If you check what happened inside CELAC, it's the same thing that happened two days ago in Brazil regarding COP30. It's very difficult to reach a pragmatic approach. It seems that the region is leaving behind the pragmatism that could be the only thing that would be useful in this situation for the region. And that's very sad. So yes, we admire Uruguay.

 

We think that we must learn from you that way of the society behaving every five years, the terms in Uruguay. Every five years, exactly the same day. In Uruguay, they move from left to right to the center. There is not much feeling. And they think about the common interest in the future as a state, as a society. So I admire that very much, and thank you very much. In CELAC, we had India. We will be working in these two working groups with the Minister of External Affairs.

 

And we also have CELAC, the European Union, which is important. And you will keep doing that during 2026. So that is the comments. I'm sorry for that. But I also have a question. Under this situation, nowadays, what could be the best way for the interaction between India and Latin America? So India is a highly protectionist country in terms, let's say, of tariffs. That's okay, because it's a huge country. India is able to produce everything for everyone. That's okay. Taking into account that agreements like partial scope agreements and commercial agreements, yes, in the 80s, 90s, that's okay.

 

But there should be new ways to interact in countries between India and regions like Latin America. Because nowadays, what we should be thinking about is investment and maybe associations between the companies to produce and to participate in the chain of value for products, not necessarily under commercial agreements. So what could be the best recipe for this between India and the region?

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: Thank you, Vasanth. First, the critical minerals. Yeah, of course, it's not a new, but now it's in the agenda. It's going to change, I think, the interests of several countries in Latin America. Because if we see the steps of the U.S. and European Union related with some countries of Latin America, it's about critical minerals, really, of course. Europe is very aware of this, but also U.S. And I think that the relation, what we imagine is that the relation of the new kind of relation between the U.S. and Argentina is also related with critical minerals.

 

And if the government of Chile will change, that we imagine is going to happen. Something similar will also, I think it's going to change also the relation with Chile and the U.S. related political minerals. The problem is that not all countries in the region are playing this, because this is something more about Argentina, Chile, Peru, if you expand Bolivia, but it's not about Uruguay for example.

 

And the question is how we can work together in this issue in the region, because at the end if not it's going to be a decision of Peru, a decision of Chile, it's not going to be a regional decision. We don't have a regional policy about critical minerals in Latin America, because we don't have even a common policy in infrastructure. We try, but we fail about that. So there have been a lot of important decisions that will impact in the future of the region that I think are not going to be common decisions, are going to be national decisions. I don't know, it's my opinion, maybe the Ambassador thinks a bit different.

 

The problem is that if we wait for free trade agreements, if we only talk with India in terms of free trade agreements, maybe we block the agenda. Of course we need to open the economy of India, 350 products is not available, but India is going very slow with other economies around the world, it's not only a problem with Latin American countries. So I think that we need to try other instruments. We need to try to have a political will of India to respond to Latin America, to open CELAC to that, we need to work more with CELAC.

 

And then we need to show different instruments, different agreements, because we can do a lot of things with India in other sectors, not only waiting for the free trade agreement. So when I talk with some people in the ministries in Uruguay, the response is, oh no, it's difficult to do business with India. That's it. No, it's a close economy. Okay, let's see, but in energy we don't have a kind of agreement in this, in services, in technology, why not?

 

So I imagine that we need to add more different instruments, more different agreements in the agenda, not only free trade agreements. That is my only answer, possible for your question, it's a very difficult question. If you see what was the agenda with China since the 80s to now, I think that the good decision of China was China started with the region only talking about trade, only. Buying a lot, then start selling a lot, then start talking about investments, then start talking about other kinds of agreements, then talks about policy, about military cooperation.

 

So now you see the agenda with China, of Latin America and you have a huge scope of different issues. So we need to have a more scope of different issues with India. Why not? India is going to be fourth economy, third economy in the next decades of the world. So India is going to have a conversation, a very deep conversation with all countries around the world in several issues.

 

So I think that one strategy is to open the relation with India in more and more and more kinds of instruments, not only free trade agreement. I want a free trade agreement with India, but I know this is difficult. So maybe we can start that and add other kinds of instruments in the relation.

 

Ashok Sajjanhar: I think the point that professor has made because you mentioned, professor, and I think from other backers also, this is the feeling, that India is a very closed economy. That might have been a matter of the past. But if you look at more recent times India has signed an FTA with the United Kingdom. You have spoken about India-EU. We have India and UAE. We have India-Australia. We have India-New Zealand. We have India-EFTA. And Australia, we signed it two, three years ago and we are upgrading it. The point I am making is that across the board, there might be a few red lines on the issue of agriculture, dairy products, etc.

 

But otherwise, barring these red lines, the whole area is completely open. And so, I think, there is also that inertia that India is a closed market, India is very difficult to do business in. It is, in my view, I mean, that is the impression that definitely we have. And you said India is going to become a third largest economy in the decade. No, two years. In another two years. What I think we need to do in addition to the FTA go through the connectivity, have more air linkages, have more people to people contact, have more tourism, have more people go here and there.

 

We have the digital physical infrastructure that I am sure all my friends from the countries know about it. What a great success it has been there. So even in the area of user-friendly technology, there are so many things that India can contribute. It's not only the third world.

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: No, okay. In terms of the third economy, it depends on the calculation of GDP. That is the discussion. Okay. No, yeah. It's because the GDP, it depends on that calculation. But it's going to be one of the biggest economies of the world. We know that. It's already one of the biggest economies of the world. About if it is or not a closed economy, okay. It's a discussion. Indicators said us that in average of the tariffs and in some sectors, India is close in the market, in general terms. And in particular, close in products that we can sell. So for Latin America, it's difficult to have a negotiation with India if you protect all the products we can sell you. But we need to negotiate.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: Yeah, and if it is something we need to convince each other about, including through official channels. Sripathi, you wanted to say something? Is there anybody else who wants to say anything or ask? Okay, so two and then we close. Okay, then we can pass. Sripathi?

 

Sripathi Narayanan: Sripathi, I'm a fellow with the council here. Taking off from Ambassador Sajjanhar's question, there is a view that India is a closed economy. But in your speech, you made two critical points. One, Latin American economic bases are not complementary but competitive. You are selling the same product to the same markets. That's the same case when we look at Latin America. Same set of product lines and same set of markets.

 

Second, even within Latin America, you had mentioned in passing that Brazil and Argentina are kind of closed economies or have got restrictions. So from an Indian perspective, what you said, we flip it and the same story.

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: Okay. So now you can ask.

 

Unidentified Participant: Good evening, everyone. My name is Sugandhi. I'm a research analyst with the council. So as we all know that some Latin American countries have issues and problems of drug trafficking, human trafficking, and armed gangs and violence. So does Uruguay also have those kind of similar issues? And if yes, what is the government doing to counter it? Thank you.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: Teshu is the last.

 

Unidentified Participant: [Question Inaudible]

 

Ignacio Bartesaghi: Several things. So about No, that are not problems of Uruguay. We cannot help in that. It's not something that is a big issue for Uruguay, that problematic in our society. Of course, we can cooperate in some things, how we can prevent that. But I know it's a problem here in India, but not in Uruguay, okay? The case of... Of course, Argentina and Brazil are close economies, but I don't have any problem to say that. Okay? No problem. I fight against that. Uruguay is not a close economy, but the problem is that we are part of MERCOSUR.

 

So we are part of a block that we have like a common policy. So we are really protected, protected because of Argentina or Brazil. Now, MLE is changing, but a bit because as I told you, it's only changing with the U.S. So the response is from my point of view, India is opening, but even now it's a close economy. Argentina, Uruguay is also a close economy. MERCOSUR is also a close economy. Okay? So we have to work in how we can open our economies.

 

Yeah. Today we have CELAC. Of course, CELAC is having some problems. Uruguay presidency is like an opportunity, I think, because Uruguay is like the country that without, with less political problems in the region, no? Because if the presidency is with Colombia, someone will fight with Colombia, with the president with Peru, because they are big of Argentina, Brazil, they are fighting, Milei and Lula. So the opportunity is with Uruguay. because I think it's going to be a more positive agenda in CELAC and the space for India I think is CELAC but not only CELAC, it's ALADI as well.

 

This is another integration processes that India is observer but need to have a space there also in ALADI. The banks I told you also, the banks that India can go in, it's a lot of different strategies to know more the region. The region is going to be Different it's going to be very diversified countries It's not a whole region Africa also is not a whole region The body we don't have a yeah, both we don't have an African Union.

 

CELAC, no. I can't have political discussion, it's a forum. It's not the space to have... Maybe I think that to discuss policies about the relation between the whole region and India. Maybe CEPAL also is a space that India can... I know CEPAL works with India a lot, in CEPAL in Chile. For example, now I'm traveling to Santiago, Chile to a conference about India, how to respond to India. So CEPAL is also a space, but we don't have African Union.  We don't have that kind of space and we're not going to have a common decision to India. It's not possible.

 

But we can have is to know more about India in this framework that I think is CELAC. So the steps to further with the to formalize the relation between India and I'd say CELAC that is going to happen. It's already happening. It's going to happen in the next year. I think that is the way to do it. Benefits or at the moment, Uruguay is more benefit than damage in the situation. Why? Because if you compare, we have only 10 % plus and if you look our trade with US is increasing. If you look our trade with China is increasing more. Why? Because we are selling some things that U.S. is not selling to China.

 

So when you look to the trade war, you need to see not only the relation with the U.S., you need to see if the other country also responds to U.S. with some tariffs, then we can sell what the U.S. is not selling to China. For example, meat, soya beans, because what we have to be aware is that U.S. is a great exporter of agricultural products also around the world. We compete also with the U.S. in the export of these.

 

So the U.S. is not exporting these products to China. We can export more. Of course, in terms of multilateral norms and of course, in terms of water utilization, we are very worried about the situation between China and the U.S. We don't like this. We don't like to choose now. But in terms of trade, at the moment, for Uruguay and also for Argentina, Also for Brazil, Brazil less because it has the 40 % plus of tariffs. If you look in the evolution of trade, it's not a bad situation for MERCOSUR, the world trade at the moment. We are really okay for the moment.

 

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: So thank you Professor Bartesaghi. I think that was a very wonderful interaction, your talk and your responses. Very intense and I'm sure we will all learn from it. And one thing I want to mention, you spoke when you were responding to the questions, or perhaps in your lecture you said, I'm a free trade supporter, Uruguay. You said Uruguay is a free trade supporter. Fine, this is a traditional discussion. You are talking of free trade in an era of trade wars.

 

So you have to see, and as Ambassador Sajjanhar had also mentioned and my colleague also mentioned when they were responding to your statements about India being a protectionist, a closed economy. What I want to say is that there is a larger issue in the international context that we, given the geopolitical shift, that we have to grapple with. What should trade be? Should trade be a harbinger of stability, cooperation, security, enhanced ties, and meeting each other's needs? Or I mean, it should be for friendship. You need this, we give you this.

 

And that's how people in villages work with each other or in cities they work with each other. You need this, you take this, I give you this. So ash a harbinger, it cannot be trade, trade cannot be a harbinger of discomfort levels, that you are hurting my industry. It can't be a harbinger of mistrust, that I don't know what you are doing because you are more powerful than me. Or it can't be a harbinger of conflict. So given the international context that we are in, in the sense that we are moving towards a New World Order.

 

So this is a balance that we need to arrive at, where people feel comfortable with the trade that is happening. And there is no mistrust, but there is a positive association with it. So that is very important. With that, I would like to end today's lecture. I'll give it to my colleague Giri. Yes, please. Yeah, yeah.

 

Unidentified Participant: People always forget that the benefits of the free trade agreement are not India, are not Peru and Uruguay are the national consumers, who is going to have more options to have products with less price and more quality is the consumer all together here. This is the most important benefit of a free trade agreement. Thank you.

 

Unidentified Speaker: On behalf of Indian Council of World Affairs, I express my deepest gratitude to Professor Ignacio Bartesaghi for the thought-provoking lecture. I would also like to convey my sincere thanks to Chair, Ambassador Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General and Additional Secretary, ICWA, and to Dr. Nivedita Ray, Director Research at the Council, for the constant support, guidance, and encouragement. My special thanks to my colleague and coordinator of this event, Dr. Arnab Chakraborty, for his contribution, and to the ICWA administration for the valuable assistance. Lastly I extend my thanks to all of you for taking the time to join us today. And with this we formally come to conclusion of today's event. Thank you and please join us for high tea at the foyer.

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